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I'm Dr.

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Mary Fore and I'm a professor
of political economy

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and I'm also the director of the Honors
and Scholars Program.

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Today,
we're privileged to have as our guest Dr.

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Adam Herbert,
president emeritus of Indiana University

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and also president emeritus of UNF,

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to those of us
who've been at UNF as long as I have,

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which I am embarrassed to say is longer

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than most of you guys have been alive.

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Adam really needs no introduction.

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He's a legend here.

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He served as UNF’s president from 1989

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to 1998, only leaving us to become

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the chancellor of the entire state
university system of Florida.

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As a point of personal privilege,
I would like to say that Adam

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has been an influential mentor to me
while he was president of UNF,

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He created the
honors program and I was one

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first to teach in that program.

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He also created the Scholars Program

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that I directed before becoming
the director of the Honors Program.

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The Scholars Program resulted
in several of our UNF students winning

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prestigious national scholarships
and fellowships

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like the Truman and the Gates
Cambridge Scholarships.

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Today, the Honors and Scholars
programs have been combined

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into one program under my leadership.

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Before Adam
left to become President of IU,

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He also created the Florida Center
for Public Policy and Leadership at UNF,

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and I was honored
to be its chief economist.

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So in my career, as well as our current
student’s educational experiences

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would be far less satisfying today
if Adam had not been our president.

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Face to face,
which this interview series is named is

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named, is actually copied on

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the interview show Inside the Actor's
Studio.

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However, instead of interviewing actors
and directors,

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we interview influential leaders
in our own community.

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Dr. Herbert joins an impressive lineup

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of local luminaries
who have sat in the chair across from Mr.

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Duvall.

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Some of our previous guests have included
the Olympic gold medalist

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Shannon Miller,
Michael Ward, the CEO of CSX.

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Wayne
Weaver, the first owner of the Jaguars.

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Governor Jeb Bush, Senator Bob Graham.

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And Jay Stein, founder of Steinmark.

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These in-depth interviews are intended
to give our students a sort of roadmap

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about how to live a successful life,
not only in their careers,

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but also in their communities
and families as well.

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Anyone who has ever

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watched inside the Actors Studio knows
that the series would not exist

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without the extremely talented host
and interviewer James Lipton.

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He does extensive research on his guests
and gets them to open up about themselves.

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We're lucky
to have our own insightful host

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who's been with our program

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- is the founder of a Jacksonville
based pharmaceutical company

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- partner and the Jaguars,
the Jacksonville Jaguars

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and a board member on many local
nonprofit organizations

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including habiJax the Community Foundation

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and the Jaguars Foundation.

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I'd also like

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to recognize Karen Hurd, who is here
today.

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It's a good thing she is because she will
definitely keep Adam honest.

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Right.

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So without further ado,
I would like to welcome Dr.

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Herbert and Lawrence Dubo.

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Thank you, Dr.

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Fore.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Dr. Board.

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If you've had a chance
to read the accompanying information

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that was on in your chair,
you will note that Dr.

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Herbert has a rather impressive
educational and professional background.

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So I am going to get right into the heart

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of what everyone who has read
that resumé is thinking.

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You have been an outstanding
professor of public administration

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and political science,
as well as the president

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of the University of North Florida
and Indiana University,

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a director of Northern Virginia Programs

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in the center for Public
and Administration Policy and executive

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director of the Florida Center
for Public Policy and Leadership.

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And that's just for starters.

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How could you possibly avoid running

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and or be recruited to run for public
office?

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Your resume just screams for you
to be running for some position

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at a governmental level city,
county or state.

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My wife won't let me.

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No, no, Karen, that's not true.

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So I.

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I must confess that I have thought
about running for public office.

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I was very active, actually,

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in student government at Southern Cal.

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And it was interesting.

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The I was the men’s student body president
and the president of my dorm.

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All those kinds of things.

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President. And

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I was convinced to run for student body
president

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and I lost by not to call these things.

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I lost by 29 votes.

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Not that it was important or anything,
but during the course of that,

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what I concluded was that
there were some things that

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I had to do to win
that that I was not willing to do.

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And, you know, I really love
the administrative side of things.

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And so what I decided
is that it's much better for me

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just to be involved behind the scenes.

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And, you know, when Jeb Bush was elected
governor.

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I had the opportunity to serve as chair
of his transition committee.

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I enjoyed that.

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There was a lot of politics
involved in it, I’m

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helping the current
mayor on a few things. But

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I think that there are roles you can play

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and my strengths are more
on the administrative side,

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so I'm happy doing that.

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Well, then along that line,

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can you really run a government

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like a business?

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Yes and no.

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The big difference.

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First, in terms of principles,
there are certain management principles

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that apply in both the public
and private sectors.

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Accountability, a strong focus

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of budgetary responsibility.

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Those things are critical.

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Having very clearly articulated goals
that you're attempting to pursue,

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selecting the right people with the
essential skills necessary to do the job.

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All of those are very similar.

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Now, what makes the difference
is the political realm

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and politics
can be very challenging sometimes.

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And one of the things
that you have to constantly deal with

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is as an elected official.

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Is that you’ve got to pay attention
to constituents and what they want.

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And you
do that in a corporate context as well.

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But in a political arena, you have
you have so many actors

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that you've got to please.

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And I look now at the mayor.

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On the one hand, he's got to deal with
his broader politics within the community.

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But he also has a city council
that he has to deal with.

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And there are certain things that you do
or don't do

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based upon whether or not
you can get support from the council.

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So there are all of these dimensions
that enter into it,

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but then make the political environment
more challenging.

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But I think that

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the kind of the ground
in which we're living today,

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the economic pressures in particular
that are that are that are

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brought to bear, you have to apply
some of those principles.

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But being sensitive to the fact that

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in order to be reelected,

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you've got to pay attention
to those constituents

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in order to successful, ultimately,
you have to have very good relationships

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with the legislative body
that you're dealing with.

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Frankly, this is one of the most
challenging times in my lifetime

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to serve either as an elected official
or as a university president.

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And the economy is just driving so much of

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this is making it
so much more challenging than it has been.

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And certainly over the course of the past
20 or 30 years.

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Well, many of these students are

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studying political science
or public administration.

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Is public administration really public?

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Well,

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that answer is yes and no.

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Again, this is a challenging time.

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You know, I am a professor.

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I was a professor
of public administration.

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And, you know,
and I was especially interested

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in leadership questions
and the challenge of

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how do you effectively lead
a complex enterprise,

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whether it is a university
or a governmental entity.

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And, you know,

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there are all of these pressures that are
that that are being brought to bear.

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And as I look at today
of what's happening, you know, the economy

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just drives so much of what

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elected officials have to deal with.

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You watched the debate last evening
and some of the things

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that are being talked about
in the context of the Republican Party,

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also dealing with all of the social issues
that that is

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that is just becoming
an increasingly more complex mosaic.

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And, you know, and ultimately,
could you talk about public, you’re

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dealing with the question
of how you respond to the

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to the needs, the demands of desire
and the body politic?

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And that's the challenging part. But,

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you know, I think this is an exciting time

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in the history of this country,
but it's just a very challenging one.

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And the debates,

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I think they're going
to be very difficult once.

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So I’m interested to see what happens
in this election at the federal level,

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to see how the public
sorts through all of this

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in the country today is more

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divided than it has been in

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any time that I can recall.

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And so that makes it

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even more of a public kind

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of debate that occurs.

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And and I don't think
I want to run for office today.

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But, you know, it's going to be
fascinating to see how this plays out.

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Their debates, their arguments,
their different arguments.

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We saw that last night.

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I don't know
if many or any of you are aware, but

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the president of the United States
has a daily

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diary and it's documented.

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And after a period of time
it's made public and it starts at 731

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in the morning and it goes to 1050
at night when he goes to bed.

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And every step the president makes,

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every person who he meets
with is well documented.

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This one

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happens to be from February 18th of 1975

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at 1052 to 1059,

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the president met with Ambassador
Robert Ellsworth.

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From 1241 to 1245.

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The president met with so forth
and so forth.

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At 1:00, the president went to the old
Executive Office Building cafeteria,

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and from 1 to 130, the president met
with Adam Herbert, junior

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associate professor
and chairman of the Urban Affairs Program

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in Virginia Tech, adjacent to the site
of the Department of Health Education.

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And welfare.

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You had lunch with the president?

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Yes, I did.

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That was part of the White House fellows.

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Right. Tell us about that.

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It was the first time
that a modern president,

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their contemporary president,
had had lunch

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in the cafeteria there
in the old Executive Office Building.

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And there were five or six of us
not forgotten

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the number two,
four, six, seven, seven others. And

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we were seated around the table waiting.

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And then all of a sudden the door opened.

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A Secret Service agent walked in

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first, checked this all out,

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and decided that we were innocent

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enough and saw that this was excuse me,
this is President Ford.

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Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford.

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And so the president walked in and
I decided that he ought to sit next to me.

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And so I said, Mr.

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President, here's your seat.

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And so he came over
and we had a wonderful conversation,

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and he talked a little bit about some of
the things that he was dealing with

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and during that year,

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all of us had things
we were interested in.

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But as a public administration professor,

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I was especially interested
in leadership questions.

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And so I started to ask the same question
to almost everyone we talked with.

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And so what I said was Mr.

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President, you’re
regarded as an outstanding leader.

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And one of the things
that I'd like to ask you

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is what are the two or three

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leadership

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strategies that you always pursue?

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What is it that

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explains your success as a leader?

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And the fascinating thing
was that what he articulated in

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some respects was very similar
to what many of the others

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talked about,
Robert McNamara and folks like that.

249
00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:34,173
But essentially what he said

250
00:14:34,173 --> 00:14:39,211
was that you surround yourself
with outstanding people, you take away

251
00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:42,948
what you want done and you hold them
accountable for performance.

252
00:14:43,449 --> 00:14:45,751
That just stood out for me.

253
00:14:45,751 --> 00:14:48,921
And just to just address a little bit
with Robert McNamara,

254
00:14:49,388 --> 00:14:53,359
I asked him that question,
Uh, have you heard of Robert McNamara?

255
00:14:53,792 --> 00:14:55,427
Okay.

256
00:14:55,427 --> 00:14:59,865
What Bob McNamara said
he was secretary of defense at the time,

257
00:14:59,865 --> 00:15:03,402
and I spent a little time
and Troy is head of a major

258
00:15:04,003 --> 00:15:07,539
automobile company, but it was very small.

259
00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:08,774
So he said,

260
00:15:09,975 --> 00:15:10,576
there are three

261
00:15:10,576 --> 00:15:13,512
principles that I've been asked.

262
00:15:13,712 --> 00:15:15,214
What two or three?

263
00:15:15,214 --> 00:15:17,016
And he said,

264
00:15:17,383 --> 00:15:19,852
the first thing is you surround yourself

265
00:15:20,252 --> 00:15:23,555
with people who are very smart.

266
00:15:23,555 --> 00:15:27,660
He said ideally smarter than I am.

267
00:15:27,826 --> 00:15:31,096
He said, in my case,
that's very difficult.

268
00:15:31,096 --> 00:15:32,631
And I just told him a little bit

269
00:15:32,631 --> 00:15:35,567
about the high regard
which he held myself.

270
00:15:36,368 --> 00:15:39,004
But then he went on to talk
about accountability for life.

271
00:15:39,338 --> 00:15:41,941
But the president was just

272
00:15:42,541 --> 00:15:47,246
a very warm guy
and he responded to all of our questions.

273
00:15:47,246 --> 00:15:52,184
And it was really a highlight
of my experiences in Washington.

274
00:15:52,184 --> 00:15:55,321
I mean, there are very few people
that have an opportunity to meet

275
00:15:55,321 --> 00:15:58,357
with the president of the United States
of America or had lunch

276
00:15:58,590 --> 00:16:01,493
and have lunch with one
to spend an hour with.

277
00:16:01,493 --> 00:16:02,895
It was

278
00:16:04,029 --> 00:16:05,297
just an incredible experience.

279
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:06,765
It's one that I'll never forget.

280
00:16:06,765 --> 00:16:08,400
And that was because of that.

281
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,472
In part, I watched very carefully
what he was doing and how he did it.

282
00:16:14,039 --> 00:16:17,376
And I remember
we went over to the State Department.

283
00:16:17,376 --> 00:16:19,478
He had a budget briefing.

284
00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:24,183
This was the first session that he had
with the media at which he was,

285
00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:27,319
I think, in part
attempting to show that he was on

286
00:16:27,319 --> 00:16:31,223
top of the job and was able to handle it.

287
00:16:31,690 --> 00:16:34,259
So he unveiled his budget

288
00:16:34,259 --> 00:16:37,396
and the impressive thing was
he had several members

289
00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:41,433
of the cabinet there
and he had the budget director there.

290
00:16:41,867 --> 00:16:45,137
But for a little over an hour,

291
00:16:45,137 --> 00:16:49,842
he presented the budget
and answered questions about it

292
00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:55,047
at a level of detail
that was extremely impressive.

293
00:16:55,047 --> 00:16:58,584
And I think part of
this was his way of showing that I am up

294
00:16:58,584 --> 00:17:01,320
to the challenge of holding this office.

295
00:17:02,021 --> 00:17:06,525
But again, it was a great experience,
and I'm impressed that you found that.

296
00:17:06,925 --> 00:17:08,193
You know, but

297
00:17:09,795 --> 00:17:12,765
I would also
tell all of you that since you mentioned a

298
00:17:12,765 --> 00:17:16,435
the White House Scholars program,
that is something that I hope

299
00:17:16,835 --> 00:17:20,506
all of you will check out, pay
attention to.

300
00:17:20,506 --> 00:17:26,078
It is an incredible, life
changing experience.

301
00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:30,549
You apply for the for the position
is a very rigorous screening process.

302
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:33,252
There were over 1500 applications a year.

303
00:17:33,252 --> 00:17:34,787
I applied.

304
00:17:34,787 --> 00:17:37,222
It's sort of like American Idol

305
00:17:38,791 --> 00:17:40,726
because they cut it down.

306
00:17:40,726 --> 00:17:44,897
There were 15 of us that were selected
out of the 1500 that applied,

307
00:17:45,531 --> 00:17:48,300
and there was an initial screening process

308
00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:52,271
that you go through
where they look at your application.

309
00:17:52,671 --> 00:17:55,474
There are at least five or six people
that go through

310
00:17:55,474 --> 00:17:58,410
and evaluate, including former fellows.

311
00:17:58,811 --> 00:18:03,949
They cut it down ultimately to the point
that there are about 15

312
00:18:03,949 --> 00:18:08,854
to 20 people who are interviewed
at a regional level around the country.

313
00:18:09,354 --> 00:18:11,490
There are 11 of those. And

314
00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:13,092
then you

315
00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:15,727
go to the final interview,
and that's three days

316
00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:19,465
worth of the most

317
00:18:19,698 --> 00:18:23,035
challenging interviews
that I've been a part of have.

318
00:18:23,168 --> 00:18:26,305
It was clearly the most
challenging interview process

319
00:18:26,305 --> 00:18:28,707
that I've ever gone through for any job.

320
00:18:29,308 --> 00:18:34,880
And you're sitting in a room
with three people, just one group

321
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,451
after another of three commissioners,
and they just ask you questions.

322
00:18:39,451 --> 00:18:42,721
And there are no limits in terms
of what they're going to ask.

323
00:18:43,522 --> 00:18:45,557
I remember one person said,

324
00:18:45,991 --> 00:18:48,961
I see that you are a professor
of public administration.

325
00:18:50,462 --> 00:18:52,531
What one book

326
00:18:52,764 --> 00:18:56,268
about anyone

327
00:18:56,268 --> 00:18:59,371
in politics that

328
00:18:59,371 --> 00:19:02,307
would you say
that your students have to read?

329
00:19:03,242 --> 00:19:05,644
And I said, Well,
actually there are two people.

330
00:19:05,944 --> 00:19:08,780
And the guy said, I didn't ask
you about two I asked you about the one.

331
00:19:09,915 --> 00:19:10,249
Well,

332
00:19:10,249 --> 00:19:12,751
what I
knew was that what he was trying to do

333
00:19:13,252 --> 00:19:19,625
was to get a sense of my political values
and to pay for what I said.

334
00:19:19,625 --> 00:19:22,961
He was going to try
to push me up off of a limb or a tree

335
00:19:23,462 --> 00:19:25,497
to see if I would cut it off.

336
00:19:25,497 --> 00:19:27,966
And so I said, well, there's just one.

337
00:19:27,966 --> 00:19:28,934
There's no question.

338
00:19:28,934 --> 00:19:33,338
Woodrow Wilson,
he had no comment after that

339
00:19:34,273 --> 00:19:37,009
because saying Woodrow Wilson

340
00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:39,077
didn't tell him anything about my values,

341
00:19:40,112 --> 00:19:42,281
but had he said, well, why Woodrow Wilson?

342
00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:45,817
What I would have said was
well he is regarded as the the

343
00:19:45,884 --> 00:19:49,955
the founder really
of public administration in many respects.

344
00:19:50,355 --> 00:19:53,492
And so I think it's very important
to think that our students

345
00:19:53,492 --> 00:19:57,062
have an understanding
of his relationship to the field.

346
00:19:57,496 --> 00:19:58,830
But it was that kind of thing.

347
00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:02,034
Or they would ask you about how you felt

348
00:20:02,034 --> 00:20:05,337
about troops in Vietnam
and should they be pulled out. Why?

349
00:20:06,138 --> 00:20:08,140
So you had to be ready
for almost anything.

350
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:09,942
So it was it was an incredible experience.

351
00:20:09,942 --> 00:20:13,645
What they're trying to do
is to get a sense for how you handle

352
00:20:13,645 --> 00:20:17,382
pressure, how you handle yourself
in difficult political situations

353
00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:19,351
you're working for.

354
00:20:19,351 --> 00:20:22,955
And this is the key thing
you’re working for a cabinet officer

355
00:20:23,488 --> 00:20:26,491
or for a senior person in the White House.

356
00:20:26,992 --> 00:20:30,295
In my case,
I worked with the secretary of what was -

357
00:20:31,763 --> 00:20:33,298
his name was Cap Weinberger.

358
00:20:33,298 --> 00:20:36,001
He held a number of positions.

359
00:20:36,001 --> 00:20:36,868
Budget director.

360
00:20:36,868 --> 00:20:39,238
He was also the secretary of defense.

361
00:20:39,238 --> 00:20:43,775
But but the significant thing for me
was that any meeting

362
00:20:43,775 --> 00:20:47,346
the Cap had at his office,
I was allowed to attend.

363
00:20:47,879 --> 00:20:49,848
I travelled with him.

364
00:20:49,848 --> 00:20:54,720
I had an opportunity to hear him
make some very difficult decisions.

365
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,422
At one point, he was talking about
he had a meeting

366
00:20:57,422 --> 00:21:00,158
and he was talking about the Rhodes
Scholarship program.

367
00:21:00,158 --> 00:21:02,461
And the question was whether or not

368
00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:06,198
the federal government

369
00:21:06,198 --> 00:21:09,101
should apply some requirements
with regard to that.

370
00:21:10,335 --> 00:21:13,739
And he responded that in a very clear fact

371
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:18,477
with black alumn
and an issue came up there

372
00:21:18,510 --> 00:21:20,779
and I remember the general counsel
saying, well,

373
00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:24,316
if you take it, if you get into this
you might be sued.

374
00:21:25,183 --> 00:21:27,052
And I'll never forget his response.

375
00:21:27,052 --> 00:21:29,855
And that has impacted me
in terms of what I do.

376
00:21:30,422 --> 00:21:31,023
He said,

377
00:21:32,024 --> 00:21:34,426
Whatever you do, you're going to be sued.

378
00:21:34,426 --> 00:21:37,562
So always do what you think is right.

379
00:21:37,562 --> 00:21:39,164
I never forgot that.

380
00:21:39,164 --> 00:21:42,601
So there were all kinds of lessons
along those lines

381
00:21:42,601 --> 00:21:44,736
that I just
thought were extremely valuable.

382
00:21:45,604 --> 00:21:48,240
But the interview with the president was

383
00:21:49,541 --> 00:21:52,544
sort of the icing on the cake
in that regard.

384
00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,281
I don't know
whether I responded to your question, but

385
00:21:57,149 --> 00:22:00,218
what you're doing is taking me down
memory lane.

386
00:22:00,218 --> 00:22:03,388
It's very interesting
and that program still exists.

387
00:22:03,388 --> 00:22:07,192
And again, if what they
what they look for,

388
00:22:07,392 --> 00:22:10,495
this was something that Lyndon
Johnson established

389
00:22:10,495 --> 00:22:14,533
and the idea was that they're looking
for the best and brightest in America.

390
00:22:14,833 --> 00:22:18,236
They want to bring those folks
to Washington to get a clear

391
00:22:18,236 --> 00:22:21,640
understanding of how government operates
and then they want you to go back

392
00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:24,543
into the interlands of America.

393
00:22:24,910 --> 00:22:28,447
And by that infusion of leaders,

394
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:31,516
hopefully
the country becomes a better place.

395
00:22:31,516 --> 00:22:35,020
And so they have in my class

396
00:22:35,187 --> 00:22:39,491
we had a Congressional Medal of Honor
winner, which is the highest award

397
00:22:39,491 --> 00:22:44,029
that the military
that the country awards for Valor we had.

398
00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:47,532
There were,
I guess, four of us that were academics.

399
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,235
There were several folks who

400
00:22:50,235 --> 00:22:53,905
were vice presidents of companies
in the private sector.

401
00:22:54,206 --> 00:22:57,075
They had directors of symphony orchestras

402
00:22:58,076 --> 00:23:02,147
that there's been a common characteristic
as all of us were relatively

403
00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,550
young and had begun

404
00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:08,553
our careers, but had engaged

405
00:23:08,553 --> 00:23:12,124
in a wide array of activities
that suggested leadership potential.

406
00:23:12,624 --> 00:23:16,161
In my case,
I was a department chair of a university

407
00:23:16,528 --> 00:23:21,299
in my late twenties, which was unusual
and had done a number of other things.

408
00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,902
And I've been very fortunate to do.

409
00:23:24,469 --> 00:23:27,539
But and also
the interview process was critical.

410
00:23:27,539 --> 00:23:30,575
So at some point in your careers, before

411
00:23:30,575 --> 00:23:33,311
you get to be outrageous,

412
00:23:34,312 --> 00:23:36,348
it's important
for you to take a look at that.

413
00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:39,384
For those of you
that decide to apply for it

414
00:23:39,384 --> 00:23:42,087
and get it would be a life
changing experience for you

415
00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:47,592
and just an incredible opportunity
for your public service along the way.

416
00:23:48,593 --> 00:23:49,728
I appreciate

417
00:23:51,229 --> 00:23:53,165
[unintelligable].

418
00:23:53,165 --> 00:23:56,268
You have been active in the NCAA

419
00:23:57,469 --> 00:24:00,505
and a variety of leadership positions.

420
00:24:00,505 --> 00:24:04,109
What is your opinion of the current status
of the rules and regulations,

421
00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:08,914
as well as discipline and penalties
as it pertains to college athletes?

422
00:24:08,914 --> 00:24:13,585
There seems to be a higher volume
of arrests amongst college and college

423
00:24:13,585 --> 00:24:17,823
athletes for a variety of misdemeanor
and even some felony

424
00:24:18,123 --> 00:24:20,525
infractions.

425
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,964
Well, first, let me tell you that
I am a strong advocate

426
00:24:26,231 --> 00:24:28,900
of intercollegiate athletics.

427
00:24:29,768 --> 00:24:34,172
I think that it's a very,
very important part of campus life.

428
00:24:35,006 --> 00:24:38,376
I believe that both intercollegiate
and intramural

429
00:24:38,844 --> 00:24:41,346
athletic activity,
I think, is the physical dimension

430
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,684
that is important to the teamwork
that one garners

431
00:24:45,684 --> 00:24:48,887
from that learning how to win

432
00:24:48,887 --> 00:24:53,058
and lose is important.

433
00:24:53,058 --> 00:24:54,960
Establishing goals and moving

434
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,163
systematically toward the achievement
of all of those things are

435
00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:02,968
are very important elements
of of athletic competition,

436
00:25:02,968 --> 00:25:06,171
whether it is at the intercollegiate level
or the intramural level.

437
00:25:06,171 --> 00:25:08,740
So I'm a strong advocate of both of those.

438
00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:15,914
With regard to intercollegiate
athletics, frankly, it's out of control.

439
00:25:17,082 --> 00:25:18,617
And I was on the Knight

440
00:25:18,617 --> 00:25:21,820
Commission,
which has been sort of a watchdog

441
00:25:22,420 --> 00:25:24,890
for athletics,

442
00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:28,627
and we came up with the name
changes to exist.

443
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,264
But a number of recommendations
for reforms.

444
00:25:32,264 --> 00:25:36,134
At the heart of the problem
from a student perspective

445
00:25:36,701 --> 00:25:39,638
is that we've created
a culture of entitlement

446
00:25:40,739 --> 00:25:43,275
and dependency simultaneously.

447
00:25:44,576 --> 00:25:47,145
That is to say that from the time

448
00:25:47,312 --> 00:25:50,782
that outstanding students high school

449
00:25:52,017 --> 00:25:54,419
are recognized for their talent,

450
00:25:54,419 --> 00:25:58,323
they tend to be treated in a special way

451
00:25:59,457 --> 00:26:01,760
and that then is perpetuated

452
00:26:01,927 --> 00:26:04,930
from one year to the next
and then into college.

453
00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:08,466
And they feel entitled

454
00:26:10,035 --> 00:26:11,736
when they get to college.

455
00:26:11,736 --> 00:26:16,708
What happens is that in many cases,
because of the schedules

456
00:26:16,708 --> 00:26:19,644
and everything, they give a special treat,
special treatment.

457
00:26:20,445 --> 00:26:24,249
Their lives are are somewhat regimented,

458
00:26:25,951 --> 00:26:29,087
yet they're just so many-

459
00:26:29,554 --> 00:26:33,358
I look at my alma mater, Southern Cal.

460
00:26:33,458 --> 00:26:37,162
Some of the problems we've had out there
that occurs around the country.

461
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:40,832
It is a serious problem.

462
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,270
What happens
is that the level of discipline

463
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:47,706
that should be applied frequently is not.

464
00:26:48,673 --> 00:26:52,077
Kids are taken from a wide range of

465
00:26:53,378 --> 00:26:55,113
cultural backgrounds

466
00:26:55,113 --> 00:26:58,383
and experiences
that if you don't have the discipline,

467
00:26:59,017 --> 00:27:01,653
if the coaches are not very clear

468
00:27:01,653 --> 00:27:03,922
as to what is acceptable and what is not.

469
00:27:05,056 --> 00:27:06,825
You're going to have problems.

470
00:27:06,825 --> 00:27:11,529
And there are many coaches
and institutions that are far too lax.

471
00:27:12,731 --> 00:27:15,433
And you see it manifested in drug policies

472
00:27:16,301 --> 00:27:21,039
where some coaches are tolerant
even though they know

473
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:23,675
that or they have a suspicion
that they don't know

474
00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:27,445
that there are drug issues,
they don't deal with it.

475
00:27:27,579 --> 00:27:29,514
That's a problem.

476
00:27:29,514 --> 00:27:33,251
And one of the things
that I've told coaches is that

477
00:27:33,952 --> 00:27:39,224
that you have to live your lives
in a fashion, that you are a role model

478
00:27:39,591 --> 00:27:42,093
with regard to what you do
and how you do it.

479
00:27:42,827 --> 00:27:46,031
And we say, for example,
that you don't cheat,

480
00:27:46,564 --> 00:27:50,101
that students are penalized
if they're plagiarizing,

481
00:27:51,036 --> 00:27:53,972
if they violate the basic, basic

482
00:27:53,972 --> 00:27:58,910
efforts of the university values,
they're penalized.

483
00:27:59,644 --> 00:28:02,447
Professors understand
that there are penalties for

484
00:28:03,548 --> 00:28:05,450
plagiarizing and that sort of thing.

485
00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:07,652
But the same thing applies for coaches.

486
00:28:07,652 --> 00:28:10,188
And I guess the related issue is that

487
00:28:10,922 --> 00:28:14,693
coaches have not been expected

488
00:28:14,826 --> 00:28:18,063
to operate under the same sort

489
00:28:18,096 --> 00:28:21,099
institutions, under the same rules
that everyone else does.

490
00:28:21,733 --> 00:28:25,770
And so, again, you have students coming in
with a sense of entitlement.

491
00:28:26,037 --> 00:28:27,605
You have coaches who operate

492
00:28:27,605 --> 00:28:31,309
under the assumption that the primary goal
is to win at any cost.

493
00:28:31,943 --> 00:28:34,546
And if you don't win, you lose your job.

494
00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:36,281
Well, if they're

495
00:28:36,581 --> 00:28:40,051
led to believe that winning is the
is the name of the game

496
00:28:40,051 --> 00:28:44,255
and nothing else is acceptable,
then and you're going to tolerate

497
00:28:44,255 --> 00:28:46,958
some bad behavior,
These are some of the results.

498
00:28:47,425 --> 00:28:49,494
It's all about accountability, in my view.

499
00:28:49,828 --> 00:28:54,999
I have fired coaches
because they have not maintained

500
00:28:54,999 --> 00:28:59,437
the standards that were expected
from institutional perspective.

501
00:29:00,872 --> 00:29:02,707
And you have to

502
00:29:02,707 --> 00:29:05,376
maintain that kind
of a philosophy of progress.

503
00:29:06,211 --> 00:29:10,148
If a student athlete, in my view,
is a student athlete,

504
00:29:10,448 --> 00:29:13,952
should be treated the way
all other students are treated.

505
00:29:14,652 --> 00:29:16,988
But that's not been the case
in many institutions.

506
00:29:16,988 --> 00:29:19,090
And you pay the price
if you don't do that.

507
00:29:20,658 --> 00:29:24,362
I may be a little bit too hard nosed
when I was here earlier.

508
00:29:24,896 --> 00:29:27,432
One of the things that I said was

509
00:29:27,432 --> 00:29:32,203
that we were not going to deviate
from our normal admission standards

510
00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:35,774
with regard to the admission of athletes
in the university.

511
00:29:36,908 --> 00:29:39,377
I had some coaches that said that

512
00:29:40,011 --> 00:29:44,215
that was going to destroy the program,
that they couldn't build the program.

513
00:29:44,215 --> 00:29:47,552
So I said, okay,

514
00:29:47,552 --> 00:29:50,789
because there are certain things
that we stand for as an institution

515
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:55,126
and we're not going to deviate
from those core values.

516
00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:58,496
And I think the values
are really the key thing.

517
00:29:58,830 --> 00:30:02,901
And you have to articulate
those and expect people are gonna comply.

518
00:30:03,268 --> 00:30:06,271
And if they don't deal with it,
the appropriate fashion,

519
00:30:06,638 --> 00:30:08,706
that may mean kicking a star off the team.

520
00:30:09,407 --> 00:30:11,142
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.

521
00:30:11,142 --> 00:30:13,678
But once you establish those standards,

522
00:30:14,312 --> 00:30:17,849
then folks understand
what the rules of the game are,

523
00:30:18,183 --> 00:30:22,120
and I think they're more likely
to live within those parameters.

524
00:30:23,288 --> 00:30:25,757
Well, some people would say that

525
00:30:25,757 --> 00:30:28,059
it's not always the students fault.

526
00:30:28,593 --> 00:30:30,662
You have some students that come from

527
00:30:31,229 --> 00:30:34,933
inner city environments.

528
00:30:34,933 --> 00:30:37,902
They come to an institution
and they're treated differently

529
00:30:38,436 --> 00:30:40,972
and they say, where are
have you been keeping this?

530
00:30:41,439 --> 00:30:43,908
You know, I this is terrific.

531
00:30:44,642 --> 00:30:46,778
And so sometimes

532
00:30:47,345 --> 00:30:52,650
is it's the changing environment
that is so, so severe for some of these.

533
00:30:52,650 --> 00:30:57,689
But it's it's difficult for them
to accommodate, and I understand that.

534
00:30:57,689 --> 00:30:58,890
And that's why you have to have

535
00:30:58,890 --> 00:31:03,294
support systems in place
to help students on the academic side.

536
00:31:03,628 --> 00:31:07,932
I think you have to have counseling,
good counseling centers.

537
00:31:07,932 --> 00:31:12,537
I think that you have to have a mentoring
system, especially in athletics.

538
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:14,239
You have to have tutors.

539
00:31:14,239 --> 00:31:18,109
All those things are a fundamental effort,
especially, for example,

540
00:31:18,109 --> 00:31:19,510
into the tutoring area.

541
00:31:19,510 --> 00:31:22,981
If you know that you're bringing
in some students that are at risk,

542
00:31:23,514 --> 00:31:29,387
then it's a moral obligation, in my view,
to first ensure that you have

543
00:31:29,387 --> 00:31:32,357
the systems in place to provide
the support that those students need.

544
00:31:33,191 --> 00:31:36,094
It's irresponsible to not do that.

545
00:31:36,094 --> 00:31:40,765
And so, you know, before I begin, in fact,
going back to the admissions standards

546
00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:44,903
I was talking about earlier, before here,
we did not have in place

547
00:31:45,536 --> 00:31:48,273
some of the kinds of systems
that were necessary

548
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:54,279
to support students
who were not reasonably high performers.

549
00:31:54,779 --> 00:31:57,649
But if you know that,
then you don't admit those students.

550
00:31:57,849 --> 00:32:00,551
until you have the systems in place.

551
00:32:00,551 --> 00:32:03,254
So we have higher admission
standards that's what we were doing.

552
00:32:04,322 --> 00:32:04,822
We were trying

553
00:32:04,822 --> 00:32:08,893
to achieve a certain level of excellence,
of distinction for the institution.

554
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,831
And so to bring in student athletes
who were not able to compete

555
00:32:13,831 --> 00:32:15,366
at that level,

556
00:32:16,134 --> 00:32:18,670
I felt was irresponsible.

557
00:32:19,003 --> 00:32:22,473
Now, once you have the systems in place,
it may make some changes.

558
00:32:23,074 --> 00:32:26,411
If it's consistent, again, with where
you're trying to take an institution,

559
00:32:26,744 --> 00:32:30,815
what concerns me
is that that it's all about

560
00:32:30,815 --> 00:32:34,552
winning at all costs and you don't care
about what happens to the student.

561
00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:38,957
That is what I'm saying is irresponsible
if you're going to admit students from

562
00:32:39,691 --> 00:32:43,661
backgrounds that are different or students

563
00:32:43,661 --> 00:32:46,965
who are at risk on academic side,

564
00:32:47,865 --> 00:32:49,901
if you don't have those systems in place.

565
00:32:50,468 --> 00:32:52,971
Again, I just think that it's

566
00:32:52,971 --> 00:32:55,106
institutional failure.

567
00:32:55,106 --> 00:32:57,976
It's a - abrogation of leadership
responsibility

568
00:32:58,576 --> 00:33:01,713
and it's what I would do
is I refuse to be part of that

569
00:33:04,716 --> 00:33:05,049
picture.

570
00:33:05,049 --> 00:33:08,853
This I'm a recent college graduate
with a bachelor's degree

571
00:33:08,853 --> 00:33:12,957
in political science
and a master's in public administration.

572
00:33:13,458 --> 00:33:15,426
I want to get a doctorate

573
00:33:15,493 --> 00:33:17,595
but would like to work.

574
00:33:17,595 --> 00:33:20,832
I want to go somewhere, work on some money
so I can pay off my debts.

575
00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:23,034
Where should I apply?

576
00:33:23,034 --> 00:33:26,471
What areas of government
or the private sector are best suited

577
00:33:27,038 --> 00:33:28,373
for my further education?

578
00:33:28,373 --> 00:33:32,543
and can I make a reasonable salary.

579
00:33:33,077 --> 00:33:36,681
Well, there's some more elements

580
00:33:36,948 --> 00:33:40,218
that I need to ask, and I'll just try
to focus on a broad level.

581
00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:46,224
You know, the reality is that
if it is helpful to have experience

582
00:33:46,657 --> 00:33:49,627
before you go out with a doctorate,
I was an exception to that.

583
00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:52,397
I did not do that.

584
00:33:52,397 --> 00:33:55,466
I worked for the City of Los Angeles
one summer,

585
00:33:55,466 --> 00:33:58,069
but I got an undergraduate degree.

586
00:33:58,469 --> 00:34:01,172
I worked right through
to get a masters degree,

587
00:34:01,472 --> 00:34:05,143
and then I went straight through
and got a doctoral degree and

588
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:08,780
went to
a university level trimester system.

589
00:34:09,247 --> 00:34:13,551
So I did three years worth of work
and to count the years

590
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:17,488
I got through my dissertate-
[Unintelligable] fascinating

591
00:34:17,488 --> 00:34:20,658
no one had ever got through them in pit
in our in our school

592
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:24,362
and went back to teach.

593
00:34:24,562 --> 00:34:27,198
I left the U.S. as an undergraduate in 66.

594
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:31,669
I was back on the back of the 69.

595
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:34,906
So that was pretty rapid movement

596
00:34:36,307 --> 00:34:37,542
for those days at least.

597
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:39,710
I guess maybe today also.

598
00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:42,480
But I was driven.

599
00:34:43,848 --> 00:34:46,984
Some people argue that driven,

600
00:34:46,984 --> 00:34:48,686
but the experience is helpful.

601
00:34:48,686 --> 00:34:50,922
And so what I ended up
having to do was to,

602
00:34:51,823 --> 00:34:54,959
you know, the White House
fellowship experience

603
00:34:55,660 --> 00:34:58,996
was really critical for me
because in one year

604
00:34:58,996 --> 00:35:01,532
I got the equivalent
of several years of experience

605
00:35:01,532 --> 00:35:03,835
just by working
at the highest levels of government.

606
00:35:03,835 --> 00:35:05,503
But I do think that,

607
00:35:06,571 --> 00:35:07,004
you know,

608
00:35:07,004 --> 00:35:11,309
depending upon the students maturity,
I think that there's some

609
00:35:11,309 --> 00:35:13,411
that should consider
going straight through.

610
00:35:14,479 --> 00:35:17,248
If you want to work, you know,

611
00:35:17,248 --> 00:35:20,651
there are a whole host of opportunities
there, fellowships, programs.

612
00:35:21,886 --> 00:35:24,489
I think working for city government,

613
00:35:25,223 --> 00:35:28,593
what I do is I work with the city
administrative officer in Los Angeles,

614
00:35:28,593 --> 00:35:33,397
and that gives you
by working in a policy office,

615
00:35:33,764 --> 00:35:37,235
it gives you the kind of experience
that I think would be very helpful

616
00:35:37,235 --> 00:35:40,471
in doing a doctoral program.

617
00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:44,108
But, you know, for some people,
going straight

618
00:35:44,108 --> 00:35:47,612
through would also work very well
to pay off debt and that kind of thing.

619
00:35:48,479 --> 00:35:53,217
I think working either- it's
probably easier to do some work at

620
00:35:53,217 --> 00:35:58,789
the local level, Feds can be much more
difficult to get into. But

621
00:36:00,758 --> 00:36:01,492
I have

622
00:36:01,492 --> 00:36:05,163
a I had a look at the Bay Area
and some of the other folks who are

623
00:36:05,463 --> 00:36:08,499
who are working on
the firing line right now in terms of what

624
00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:10,668
they're advising students to do over work.

625
00:36:12,436 --> 00:36:13,871
The students sitting here face

626
00:36:13,871 --> 00:36:15,940
the possibility of a tuition increase

627
00:36:16,974 --> 00:36:19,277
as the state of Florida considers cutbacks

628
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:22,547
or cutbacks in higher education.

629
00:36:22,547 --> 00:36:25,149
You were talking about your experience
at Indiana University

630
00:36:25,149 --> 00:36:28,219
where you had to raise $250 million a year

631
00:36:28,886 --> 00:36:31,289
just to stay even and crack the nut.

632
00:36:31,289 --> 00:36:33,824
Can the private sector

633
00:36:33,824 --> 00:36:36,194
here in Florida
make up that kind of shortfall

634
00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:38,696
based on

635
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:41,232
those of you that work here?

636
00:36:41,232 --> 00:36:44,869
We were talking earlier
about this at Indiana.

637
00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:48,673
One of the things that I had to do
and this is what sort of distinguishes

638
00:36:49,106 --> 00:36:52,877
a president at an institution like that
from when I was here, is that,

639
00:36:53,411 --> 00:36:56,881
you know, here
we were just starting the process

640
00:36:56,881 --> 00:37:00,151
of being aggressive in terms
of seeking external support

641
00:37:01,018 --> 00:37:06,224
to get $1,000,000
was a real big deal for us here.

642
00:37:06,924 --> 00:37:08,159
But I went to Indiana,

643
00:37:09,293 --> 00:37:11,362
all of a sudden it's a different paradigm.

644
00:37:12,363 --> 00:37:15,199
In addition to getting money
from the legislature every year,

645
00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:19,470
which you had to do to maintain
institutional viability,

646
00:37:19,770 --> 00:37:22,607
you also had to raise, in my case.

647
00:37:22,607 --> 00:37:26,344
The goal was a minimum
of a quarter of $1,000,000,000

648
00:37:26,344 --> 00:37:30,448
every year
that we had to raise from gifts.

649
00:37:30,648 --> 00:37:33,751
And that is a challenge

650
00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:35,553
because you can't raise

651
00:37:35,553 --> 00:37:38,122
that kind of money, $1,000,000 at a time.

652
00:37:39,223 --> 00:37:41,459
So you have to get the big bucks

653
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:44,662
in the context of this state by now.

654
00:37:44,662 --> 00:37:48,232
Directly to your to your question
or I would suggest that

655
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,103
what we all have to recognize is that

656
00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:55,506
these are state institutions.

657
00:37:55,506 --> 00:38:00,211
And historically,
the state has provided support

658
00:38:00,778 --> 00:38:04,915
to assure that the university is prepared
to provide a quality education

659
00:38:06,217 --> 00:38:08,519
for every resident of the state

660
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:11,856
that meets the admissions
requirements of the institution.

661
00:38:13,224 --> 00:38:17,561
What I knew as president here
was that about every four years

662
00:38:17,561 --> 00:38:21,198
there was going to an economic downturn,
normally

663
00:38:21,198 --> 00:38:24,268
not major, but there was going to be
an economic downturn.

664
00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:26,437
We were going to lose the money.

665
00:38:26,437 --> 00:38:28,539
So part of my strategy

666
00:38:28,539 --> 00:38:31,609
as president was during the good years,

667
00:38:31,876 --> 00:38:34,845
I tried to get as much money as I could

668
00:38:34,845 --> 00:38:38,149
knowing that they were going to take
some of it back during the bad years.

669
00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:41,585
And so we were very aggressive

670
00:38:42,787 --> 00:38:44,889
when I came to the U.S.

671
00:38:44,889 --> 00:38:49,960
that one of the things that struck me,
to broaden the answer a little bit.

672
00:38:50,294 --> 00:38:53,197
But when I came here,
this was a very sleepy institution

673
00:38:54,532 --> 00:38:57,635
and I was given the privilege
of coming in here and playing reveille.

674
00:38:58,803 --> 00:39:00,738
And so the first thing that I

675
00:39:00,738 --> 00:39:04,642
observed, because I was at Florida
International University, what I observed

676
00:39:04,642 --> 00:39:07,211
is that you would have
seldom asked for anything.

677
00:39:08,879 --> 00:39:11,882
And I envision

678
00:39:11,882 --> 00:39:14,919
that University of 30,000 students.

679
00:39:16,220 --> 00:39:19,056
I knew it wouldn't during my tenure here.

680
00:39:19,523 --> 00:39:24,195
But as you take a look at this community,
what is these at its growth potential?

681
00:39:25,496 --> 00:39:29,767
JU and UNF at the time had 6000
plus students

682
00:39:30,668 --> 00:39:33,771
and Edward Waters and FSCJ

683
00:39:34,839 --> 00:39:36,774
at the time that was it.

684
00:39:36,774 --> 00:39:39,577
They didn't have University of Phenix
and all those kinds of places.

685
00:39:39,944 --> 00:39:42,179
Well, a city with a population

686
00:39:42,613 --> 00:39:45,483
of almost three quarters
of a million people

687
00:39:46,817 --> 00:39:49,520
demands a much larger

688
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,822
educational presence to what we had.

689
00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:56,660
So my goal was to grow the university,

690
00:39:56,660 --> 00:40:00,664
to establish a platform
from which it could grow to 30,000.

691
00:40:01,365 --> 00:40:03,501
That meant we had to have more land.

692
00:40:04,268 --> 00:40:06,404
So we acquired more land.

693
00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:09,440
It meant that some of you
who were here in those days

694
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,309
remember of,
you know, during my inauguration,

695
00:40:12,777 --> 00:40:16,547
there were placards
out saying no loop road.

696
00:40:17,581 --> 00:40:20,684
If you can imagine, in those days,
there was one way

697
00:40:20,684 --> 00:40:23,487
to get in and out of the campus off of St
John's Bluff.

698
00:40:24,455 --> 00:40:28,826
But now I'm looking at the goal
of having 30,000 students on the campus.

699
00:40:29,794 --> 00:40:30,361
Over time.

700
00:40:31,195 --> 00:40:33,664
You cannot have a student body that size

701
00:40:33,664 --> 00:40:37,368
with one entrance to the campus,
so you have to have three.

702
00:40:39,069 --> 00:40:44,241
So we bought the land to the north,
that was an idea

703
00:40:44,241 --> 00:40:45,876
for getting the third one.

704
00:40:45,876 --> 00:40:47,978
The second one was going out to Kernan.

705
00:40:48,412 --> 00:40:51,482
But the problem was we didn't have Kernan.

706
00:40:51,482 --> 00:40:55,319
So I had to get money to build Kernan.

707
00:40:55,319 --> 00:41:00,925
And and this is how politics comes into
all of this, Ima get back to the question,

708
00:41:01,826 --> 00:41:05,396
but we had to get political support

709
00:41:06,096 --> 00:41:09,266
to get the road
because we didn’t have the muscle here

710
00:41:09,266 --> 00:41:12,403
well it just so happened
that I was coming from South Florida.

711
00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:15,306
And one of my political godmothers

712
00:41:15,673 --> 00:41:18,909
was in the legislature and she happened
to be chair of Appropriations.

713
00:41:19,777 --> 00:41:22,413
And so she asked me what did I want?

714
00:41:23,414 --> 00:41:26,217
And I had to answer to the question
right then.

715
00:41:26,250 --> 00:41:29,920
And I said, $9 million for Kernan.

716
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:30,821
Don't tell her this.

717
00:41:30,821 --> 00:41:32,923
I didn't know what it was going to cost,

718
00:41:32,923 --> 00:41:34,992
but I thought like 9 million
sounds reasonable.

719
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,028
So we got into the bill.

720
00:41:38,028 --> 00:41:39,063
The governor vetoed it.

721
00:41:39,063 --> 00:41:43,467
The next time around, we got it again
and we were able to build Kernan.

722
00:41:43,467 --> 00:41:47,204
That was important because in order
to get all the land and the R&D part,

723
00:41:47,638 --> 00:41:50,441
you also had to guarantee

724
00:41:50,441 --> 00:41:54,044
an interchange at Kermit and JTB.

725
00:41:54,778 --> 00:41:56,847
So all of this stuff was going on

726
00:41:57,181 --> 00:42:00,484
and we had to generate money for it
in order to get that way.

727
00:42:00,484 --> 00:42:02,820
And so now all that land
is part of the university.

728
00:42:03,254 --> 00:42:06,824
So this institution over time
could accommodate

729
00:42:06,824 --> 00:42:10,728
40 or 50,000 students
just because of those land acquisitions.

730
00:42:11,962 --> 00:42:14,164
Now, the term coming back to the question
of what

731
00:42:14,164 --> 00:42:18,302
you can get in the way of support,
practical reality is that

732
00:42:19,570 --> 00:42:22,172
there is no way that given

733
00:42:22,172 --> 00:42:25,576
the economic environment in which we live
and the private sector

734
00:42:25,943 --> 00:42:30,481
is going to be able to do
for all 11 institutions in the state,

735
00:42:31,448 --> 00:42:34,251
what is being done in Indiana,

736
00:42:34,251 --> 00:42:38,322
maybe one or two institutions
have pulled that off.

737
00:42:39,089 --> 00:42:41,759
In the case of Indiana, IU

738
00:42:41,759 --> 00:42:44,161
and Purdue could potentially do that.

739
00:42:45,129 --> 00:42:49,033
But Ball state, there's no way.

740
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,202
Pretty good
basketball team, Pretty good basketball.

741
00:42:52,903 --> 00:42:55,172
But that's not going
to generate the money for it.

742
00:42:55,506 --> 00:42:58,142
So what I would say is that, yes,

743
00:42:58,542 --> 00:43:01,278
Florida, the University of Florida,

744
00:43:01,278 --> 00:43:04,848
which is the most prestigious university

745
00:43:04,848 --> 00:43:07,885
in the state,
it is the best university in the state.

746
00:43:08,352 --> 00:43:13,724
It is the only member of the AAU that is
the American Association of Universities.

747
00:43:14,592 --> 00:43:18,362
Those are the top 60 research
universities in America.

748
00:43:18,963 --> 00:43:22,433
People say Florida State,
they are close to being eligible for that.

749
00:43:23,434 --> 00:43:25,836
But so those two institutions

750
00:43:25,836 --> 00:43:30,774
potentially could raise some of the money,
but not at that magnitude.

751
00:43:31,175 --> 00:43:34,011
So what they're looking at,
the only other alternative is tuition

752
00:43:34,311 --> 00:43:36,880
is either the state support,

753
00:43:37,314 --> 00:43:40,117
it's tuition increases
or the private sector.

754
00:43:41,852 --> 00:43:45,422
And with the economy being what it is,

755
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:48,525
that would just be very difficult
at this point

756
00:43:48,525 --> 00:43:52,563
most folks are not willing to give money
to support ongoing operations.

757
00:43:53,397 --> 00:43:56,700
They're willing to provide money
for scholarships to students

758
00:43:57,301 --> 00:44:03,173
for initiatives, the creation of major
programs that can enhance the community.

759
00:44:03,507 --> 00:44:07,111
But very few people are going
to give money to say, well, okay,

760
00:44:07,144 --> 00:44:09,780
you got your budget cuts, so we're
going to give you some money so you can

761
00:44:11,215 --> 00:44:13,283
support your day to day operations.

762
00:44:13,317 --> 00:44:14,652
They aren’t going to do it.

763
00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:17,721
Well some people won’t
give to public institution either.

764
00:44:17,755 --> 00:44:18,155
At all, right.

765
00:44:18,155 --> 00:44:20,457
They want to give it to private

766
00:44:20,457 --> 00:44:22,893
institutions of higher learning
because they feel “Well

767
00:44:22,893 --> 00:44:25,963
my taxes are paying for that.”
But of course they're not.

768
00:44:26,463 --> 00:44:28,098
They aren't. And it's getting worse.

769
00:44:28,098 --> 00:44:30,401
I mean, when you take a look at

770
00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:34,972
this is the dilemma
I think for all of you as students is

771
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:37,341
there's one other dimension to this,

772
00:44:37,341 --> 00:44:43,047
and that is that the state expects
more from universities.

773
00:44:44,281 --> 00:44:48,585
And if if the focus was solely
on education,

774
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,288
that's one sort of thing.

775
00:44:51,288 --> 00:44:55,526
But the state also is saying
that they want us to be involved

776
00:44:55,592 --> 00:44:59,329
in initiatives
that help the state in multiple ways,

777
00:45:00,297 --> 00:45:03,567
and we're involved in economic development
activities.

778
00:45:04,735 --> 00:45:07,571
If you have to generate more research
to support

779
00:45:07,938 --> 00:45:11,642
the infrastructure,
that creates challenges.

780
00:45:12,409 --> 00:45:15,646
I think what's going to happen
as we look down the road is that

781
00:45:16,814 --> 00:45:19,416
there's going to be greater pressure
to limit

782
00:45:21,185 --> 00:45:23,821
tuition increases.

783
00:45:23,854 --> 00:45:26,056
That is going to force the universities

784
00:45:26,056 --> 00:45:29,093
to make a number of choices, including

785
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,730
what I talk about as selective excellence,

786
00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:37,034
to recognize that if you're cutting off
state support,

787
00:45:37,701 --> 00:45:40,971
you can't raise tuition
and get an environment

788
00:45:40,971 --> 00:45:44,408
where the public private
dollars are limited

789
00:45:45,242 --> 00:45:47,811
you can't do everything
that you've done historically.

790
00:45:48,512 --> 00:45:51,782
And so I think what you're going to see
is a continuing elimination

791
00:45:51,782 --> 00:45:53,650
of degree programs.

792
00:45:53,650 --> 00:45:55,185
You're going to see retrenchment

793
00:45:55,185 --> 00:45:58,689
with regard to the scope
of what universities are doing,

794
00:45:59,523 --> 00:46:03,761
because you just get to the point
where you can't sustain

795
00:46:03,761 --> 00:46:04,862
everything that we're building.

796
00:46:05,896 --> 00:46:06,930
And that's

797
00:46:06,930 --> 00:46:10,033
the tough part of making those decisions.

798
00:46:10,801 --> 00:46:12,002
And we already see it.

799
00:46:12,002 --> 00:46:16,106
There are a number of universities
are eliminating foreign language.

800
00:46:16,707 --> 00:46:22,012
I had to deal with in Indiana,
we offered 70 programs

801
00:46:24,515 --> 00:46:25,516
in which we taught

802
00:46:25,516 --> 00:46:28,452
foreign languages,
only university in America

803
00:46:28,652 --> 00:46:31,288
that offers a doctor
with Mongolian studies.

804
00:46:32,289 --> 00:46:36,126
So what I have to do, President,
is to say, can we continue to do that?

805
00:46:36,860 --> 00:46:41,532
Can we justify from an intellectual
perspective in terms of contributing

806
00:46:42,032 --> 00:46:45,135
to the broad reservoir of knowledge?

807
00:46:45,502 --> 00:46:48,005
And so when the president went to

808
00:46:49,273 --> 00:46:51,441
Mongolia, one of our faculty

809
00:46:51,441 --> 00:46:53,544
members
went over to be the official translator

810
00:46:54,545 --> 00:46:55,679
that we had to have a probe.

811
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:57,114
I don't know what they would have done.

812
00:46:57,114 --> 00:46:59,249
They didn't have anyone in the government
who could do it.

813
00:46:59,416 --> 00:47:01,285
And then when you're done with,

814
00:47:01,285 --> 00:47:02,686
you know,
I don't know what would have happened,

815
00:47:02,686 --> 00:47:05,823
but they would have gone to some other
country, tried to get a translator.

816
00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:10,160
But but the key point is
that you can't be everything to everybody.

817
00:47:10,994 --> 00:47:13,797
And so I think that we're entering period

818
00:47:14,264 --> 00:47:17,968
where you're going to see more degree
programs eliminated, where universities

819
00:47:17,968 --> 00:47:21,038
are going to cut back
the array of services that they provide.

820
00:47:21,371 --> 00:47:24,641
You got to see a diminution of interest
in being partners

821
00:47:24,641 --> 00:47:29,112
with governmental institutions
to address critical public needs.

822
00:47:29,813 --> 00:47:33,784
And all of that is going to be tied
back to the to the to the resource issue.

823
00:47:34,852 --> 00:47:36,386
And frankly, as a society,

824
00:47:36,386 --> 00:47:39,289
because we're putting more
and more people in prison,

825
00:47:40,290 --> 00:47:43,560
you shift the money from education
into incarceration.

826
00:47:44,294 --> 00:47:45,929
That's a problem

827
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:47,865
you have.

828
00:47:47,898 --> 00:47:49,833
Well, all of us know what the issues are.

829
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:54,771
So it's it's clearly a challenge
that I don't expect the private sector

830
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,208
as often in the question of
I don't expect the private sector

831
00:47:58,475 --> 00:48:02,980
in this state
to help more than a few institutions.

832
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:07,050
And that's why I think the pressure
is going on for institutions

833
00:48:07,050 --> 00:48:11,154
to bite the bullet and make decisions
about exactly

834
00:48:11,154 --> 00:48:13,824
what is the most important thing
for us to do

835
00:48:14,992 --> 00:48:18,695
in the context of community
needs and state needs.

836
00:48:19,830 --> 00:48:22,466
And what I do worry about
is that there does

837
00:48:22,466 --> 00:48:25,702
become a threshold point beyond which

838
00:48:26,970 --> 00:48:28,839
it's a serious challenge

839
00:48:28,839 --> 00:48:31,842
from a student perspective
to deal with those costs.

840
00:48:31,875 --> 00:48:34,578
And one last observation
is that in Indiana,

841
00:48:35,012 --> 00:48:39,182
what we were dealing with
was that the legislature

842
00:48:39,449 --> 00:48:44,121
was putting a lot of pressure
on to sustain tuition at levels

843
00:48:44,121 --> 00:48:47,658
where the increase did not exceed
more than 3% in one year.

844
00:48:48,325 --> 00:48:51,795
And so what we did was to place
a major emphasis

845
00:48:52,262 --> 00:48:57,234
on securing external private support
for scholarships.

846
00:48:57,935 --> 00:49:00,404
And so what you see now is that

847
00:49:00,837 --> 00:49:03,974
tuition for in-state
student is lower than it's ever been,

848
00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:08,445
even though tuition rates are high
because we've had the increase of tuition.

849
00:49:08,445 --> 00:49:11,915
But we've been able to use
those private dollars to help

850
00:49:12,349 --> 00:49:16,353
support or underwrite
some of those tuition increase.

851
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:17,220
Out-of-state students

852
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:21,091
paying whatever they pay
but for in-state students, in particular.

853
00:49:22,192 --> 00:49:24,294
So what
I would do as the president is placing

854
00:49:24,294 --> 00:49:30,300
a greater emphasis on securing donations
for scholarships and utilize

855
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:34,137
that as a major part of the strategy
to sustain

856
00:49:34,771 --> 00:49:37,040
tuition levels at affordable

857
00:49:39,242 --> 00:49:40,444
communities.

858
00:49:43,113 --> 00:49:46,016
I got one last point that you raised.

859
00:49:47,117 --> 00:49:51,521
When you were chancellor of the system
here in Florida,

860
00:49:51,521 --> 00:49:55,292
you attempted

861
00:49:55,425 --> 00:49:57,728
to have some of the universities

862
00:49:57,728 --> 00:50:00,764
not put in some of their programs
that they wanted to use.

863
00:50:00,764 --> 00:50:02,199
That was somewhat of medical school.

864
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:02,799
They wanted this.

865
00:50:02,799 --> 00:50:03,867
They wanted that.

866
00:50:03,867 --> 00:50:06,603
You were opposed to that? Yes.

867
00:50:06,603 --> 00:50:08,772
I talked about mission differentiation

868
00:50:09,773 --> 00:50:12,743
and which is some of the fact
that I did it in Indiana,

869
00:50:13,577 --> 00:50:16,246
because it just makes sense
that the reality is that

870
00:50:16,246 --> 00:50:18,815
every institution is different

871
00:50:19,449 --> 00:50:21,618
and it is unrealistic

872
00:50:22,085 --> 00:50:25,222
for the University of North Florida
to think

873
00:50:25,856 --> 00:50:27,991
that it is going to become

874
00:50:28,759 --> 00:50:31,128
a University of Florida,

875
00:50:31,128 --> 00:50:33,797
the state doesn't need this institution
to do that.

876
00:50:34,631 --> 00:50:37,300
And I look at the medical schools

877
00:50:38,201 --> 00:50:40,470
of Florida State,
one of the medical school.

878
00:50:41,071 --> 00:50:45,275
The reality is there was no need
in this state for another medical school.

879
00:50:46,943 --> 00:50:49,513
Instead,
you had three more and three more.

880
00:50:49,513 --> 00:50:52,382
It is absolutely absurd.

881
00:50:52,382 --> 00:50:54,885
The reality is that when you in fact

882
00:50:55,118 --> 00:50:57,888
what I said at the time,
it was not popular

883
00:50:58,455 --> 00:51:01,625
and the legislature, in fact

884
00:51:01,658 --> 00:51:04,861
reacted in a very punitive fashion

885
00:51:05,395 --> 00:51:07,898
as a result of what

886
00:51:07,998 --> 00:51:09,900
the board And I said was

887
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:12,202
that we do not need
another medical school.

888
00:51:13,003 --> 00:51:15,605
And some of this is about institutional
jealousy.

889
00:51:16,406 --> 00:51:18,909
Those of you who aren't aware that
what happens is universities

890
00:51:18,909 --> 00:51:20,377
look at each other,
they see what they have.

891
00:51:20,377 --> 00:51:21,878
So we want.

892
00:51:22,312 --> 00:51:24,614
So Florida state said “Well
University of Florida has a medical school

893
00:51:24,614 --> 00:51:26,917
so we ought to have one.”

894
00:51:27,751 --> 00:51:30,720
And then when the folks at

895
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:32,789
Central Florida see that, that

896
00:51:33,423 --> 00:51:36,460
that one will secure the Florida State
and they say “Well we want one too”.

897
00:51:37,594 --> 00:51:38,361
So all of a sudden you

898
00:51:38,361 --> 00:51:41,798
have all these medical schools
being built, like FIU.

899
00:51:42,132 --> 00:51:44,868
And so what happens is, again,

900
00:51:45,068 --> 00:51:49,673
there's a finite pool of resources
and so the question is,

901
00:51:49,973 --> 00:51:52,576
how do you want to utilize
those resources?

902
00:51:53,143 --> 00:51:55,846
And my recommendation

903
00:51:55,846 --> 00:52:01,318
to the Florida state was,
if you want to become a major research

904
00:52:01,318 --> 00:52:06,556
university, don't put 60, 80, $100 million
into a medical school

905
00:52:07,057 --> 00:52:11,795
whatcha ought to do is to identify
two at most three areas,

906
00:52:12,762 --> 00:52:16,333
and you devote $30 million to each one

907
00:52:17,167 --> 00:52:20,203
and you go out and got

908
00:52:20,203 --> 00:52:24,608
some of the best faculty members
in the world with that $30 million.

909
00:52:25,208 --> 00:52:28,111
And you say
this is going to become a major

910
00:52:28,111 --> 00:52:30,347
center
of academic excellence of the state.

911
00:52:31,348 --> 00:52:34,151
We're going to become the best
in the world in that area.

912
00:52:34,784 --> 00:52:38,221
And here's $30 million
we're going to put into it right now

913
00:52:38,588 --> 00:52:40,157
to help accomplish that.

914
00:52:40,157 --> 00:52:43,527
If they get done that is similar
to the mag lab that was created.

915
00:52:44,294 --> 00:52:46,930
You know,
if you do that at two or three areas

916
00:52:47,063 --> 00:52:51,434
and you bring in world
class scientists, you can transform

917
00:52:53,036 --> 00:52:54,938
any university.

918
00:52:54,938 --> 00:52:57,541
But rather than doing that,
they build a medical school.

919
00:52:57,541 --> 00:53:00,076
And now what happens is
when your budget is cut,

920
00:53:00,844 --> 00:53:04,314
you can't cut the money from
the medical school, that you just created.

921
00:53:05,282 --> 00:53:08,318
So Then you have to go and cut it
from arts and sciences

922
00:53:08,318 --> 00:53:11,454
and cut it from other programs
that were very strong.

923
00:53:11,454 --> 00:53:15,091
But you can't and it's a zero sum game
and only have so much money.

924
00:53:15,358 --> 00:53:16,293
You got to cut.

925
00:53:16,293 --> 00:53:19,229
But you can't cut that medical school.

926
00:53:19,229 --> 00:53:21,698
And see,
medical schools are extremely expensive

927
00:53:22,766 --> 00:53:23,700
in Indiana.

928
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:26,970
I said earlier today
that we only have one in the state.

929
00:53:28,171 --> 00:53:30,840
And, uh, but we had

930
00:53:31,174 --> 00:53:35,645
we had that school presence
on that site as well.

931
00:53:35,645 --> 00:53:37,681
That makes much more sense.

932
00:53:37,681 --> 00:53:38,248
So [unintelligable]

933
00:53:38,248 --> 00:53:41,117
to the University of Florida,
but they had the first two years

934
00:53:41,117 --> 00:53:43,887
of medical education
in two or three places around the state.

935
00:53:44,221 --> 00:53:48,758
And they’d all come to Jacksonville
or to Gainesville

936
00:53:48,792 --> 00:53:52,796
for the last two years, which is about
what there is much less expensive

937
00:53:54,097 --> 00:53:56,566
accreditation, is centered around
one institution.

938
00:53:57,601 --> 00:54:00,704
But people got an ego trip
and said a business trip,

939
00:54:01,071 --> 00:54:04,975
you know, it's all what happens at higher
education institutions.

940
00:54:04,975 --> 00:54:08,245
Others as well, is that,
you know, presidents

941
00:54:08,245 --> 00:54:11,381
want to have the biggest
and best institutions.

942
00:54:12,015 --> 00:54:13,883
Some people can say, well,
you know, when you were president at UNF

943
00:54:13,883 --> 00:54:17,454
you were talking about growing into 30,000
students.

944
00:54:17,454 --> 00:54:19,256
I had to tell faculty about 30,000.

945
00:54:19,256 --> 00:54:21,358
I was trying to do that
in a slower fashion.

946
00:54:21,791 --> 00:54:24,661
But the reality is that all of the steps

947
00:54:24,661 --> 00:54:26,730
we were taking were geared toward that.

948
00:54:27,931 --> 00:54:29,933
So folks didn't realize what was going on.

949
00:54:29,933 --> 00:54:34,904
But but my goal was to make UNF the third
most selective University of the state,

950
00:54:36,006 --> 00:54:38,508
Florida, Florida State,
were going to be the most selective.

951
00:54:39,042 --> 00:54:41,411
But I wanted this to become the third most

952
00:54:41,878 --> 00:54:46,182
because that was going to help us
keep the best and brightest students here.

953
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:47,250
We've got to be able

954
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:50,687
to attract the best and brightest students
from around the state and the country.

955
00:54:51,321 --> 00:54:54,391
All of a sudden, you have a much more
sophisticated workforce

956
00:54:55,325 --> 00:54:58,395
and businesses that are looking here,
They're going to see

957
00:54:58,395 --> 00:55:01,031
a high quality institution,
a reputation for it.

958
00:55:01,498 --> 00:55:03,333
They're going to say,
this is a great place to be

959
00:55:03,333 --> 00:55:06,836
because we know we can go to University
of North Florida and get all that sound.

960
00:55:07,504 --> 00:55:10,473
So that's why
the academic standards are so important.

961
00:55:10,473 --> 00:55:12,909
That's why having an honors
program is so important.

962
00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:16,346
That's why we brought in folks
from Kansas and Kansas

963
00:55:16,346 --> 00:55:19,382
and other places to talk about
how do we get Rhodes Scholars?

964
00:55:19,716 --> 00:55:21,885
How do we get children involved?

965
00:55:21,885 --> 00:55:25,555
Our scholars all that speaks to the
quality of the institution.

966
00:55:26,723 --> 00:55:27,957
So, you know,

967
00:55:27,957 --> 00:55:30,794
it's it's it's clearly the case that,

968
00:55:31,194 --> 00:55:33,897
you know, some of us just get caught up
in some of these things.

969
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:36,566
But you have to be realistic
about what you're trying to do.

970
00:55:36,566 --> 00:55:40,503
And I think that some of our colleagues
have not been realistic about

971
00:55:40,770 --> 00:55:44,574
looking very pragmatically at the reality

972
00:55:44,574 --> 00:55:46,743
that you're going to have these economic
downturns.

973
00:55:46,743 --> 00:55:49,245
You've got to build an institution,
take that into account.

974
00:55:49,713 --> 00:55:53,083
You've got to recognize that
in those downturns, something's

975
00:55:53,083 --> 00:55:54,651
got to have to give.

976
00:55:54,651 --> 00:55:57,721
Got to be prepared to identify
where that division is going to occur.

977
00:55:58,321 --> 00:56:01,558
And, you know,
with all of those medical schools

978
00:56:01,558 --> 00:56:05,462
and law schools and, you know, things
that the state does not need,

979
00:56:06,796 --> 00:56:09,532
that the universities had reinvested in

980
00:56:09,532 --> 00:56:12,902
what they have to become even stronger,
They would have been better off.

981
00:56:13,470 --> 00:56:15,972
And and I think that here

982
00:56:16,506 --> 00:56:19,909
of the strength of a string of presidents

983
00:56:19,909 --> 00:56:23,179
have understood that you can't
you can't be everything.

984
00:56:23,913 --> 00:56:26,416
This university now is focused on.

985
00:56:26,416 --> 00:56:30,820
But this of the name of the program,
that flagship programs,

986
00:56:31,121 --> 00:56:33,556
you know, that's the kind of thing
that you just have to do.

987
00:56:33,623 --> 00:56:36,092
You can't be everything and don't

988
00:56:37,327 --> 00:56:40,130
create stuff that
you know, you can't support all the time.

989
00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:42,465
It's just it's a losing proposition.

990
00:56:42,465 --> 00:56:46,102
Ultimately,
the students are the ones that pay for

991
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:51,408
the questions
that anyone would like to ask.

992
00:56:51,408 --> 00:56:55,912
I have a question you mentioned that
you're a strong supporter of collegiate

993
00:56:57,013 --> 00:56:58,281
athletics.

994
00:56:58,281 --> 00:57:00,950
I was wondering, you know, in

995
00:57:01,484 --> 00:57:03,520
an economic downturn,
when things need to be cut.

996
00:57:04,254 --> 00:57:07,624
My knee jerk
reaction was always cut sports

997
00:57:07,624 --> 00:57:11,161
first cut non academic things first.

998
00:57:11,161 --> 00:57:12,996
[unintelligable].

999
00:57:12,996 --> 00:57:15,632
You know, why you cut that way?

1000
00:57:15,632 --> 00:57:16,399
Well,

1001
00:57:17,167 --> 00:57:19,502
your assumption is inaccurate

1002
00:57:19,502 --> 00:57:20,403
let me say this.

1003
00:57:20,403 --> 00:57:22,806
I believe that intercollegiate athletics
should pay for

1004
00:57:23,573 --> 00:57:28,011
should fold it’s own bottom.

1005
00:57:28,011 --> 00:57:29,479
And let me give you an example.

1006
00:57:29,479 --> 00:57:31,981
A big institution, then come back here.

1007
00:57:31,981 --> 00:57:34,384
At Indiana, the University

1008
00:57:34,384 --> 00:57:37,487
Athletic Department
was running in the red every year.

1009
00:57:38,822 --> 00:57:40,290
When I got there.

1010
00:57:40,290 --> 00:57:43,660
They owed the university
several million dollars.

1011
00:57:44,527 --> 00:57:47,730
And so what I call AD in and I said,

1012
00:57:48,364 --> 00:57:50,600
this is not gonna continue.

1013
00:57:51,167 --> 00:57:53,169
Now, what we also did was we

1014
00:57:53,236 --> 00:57:56,272
we were working with the Big Ten

1015
00:57:56,706 --> 00:57:59,843
and so we ended up
creating the Big Ten television channel.

1016
00:58:01,244 --> 00:58:02,645
So all of a sudden

1017
00:58:02,645 --> 00:58:06,549
there was a lot of money coming in for it
to operate in the black.

1018
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:09,152
But what I can tell you
is that had that happened,

1019
00:58:09,486 --> 00:58:12,121
we were going to reduce one way
or another.

1020
00:58:12,722 --> 00:58:16,426
And it's not surprising
then that we hired a football coach.

1021
00:58:16,759 --> 00:58:19,529
The average salary-
let me put it a different way.

1022
00:58:19,863 --> 00:58:22,932
The salaries of the coaches in the Big
Ten started

1023
00:58:22,932 --> 00:58:26,069
about four or $5 million

1024
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:28,538
at at Indiana University.

1025
00:58:28,538 --> 00:58:29,305
We hired a coach.

1026
00:58:29,305 --> 00:58:32,842
We paid him 500,000.

1027
00:58:33,009 --> 00:58:33,443
Well,

1028
00:58:34,844 --> 00:58:36,079
fortunately for

1029
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:39,249
Northwestern, also,
it was paying about the same well.

1030
00:58:40,116 --> 00:58:42,819
So we at Northwestern
had the lowest salaries

1031
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,255
for football.

1032
00:58:45,255 --> 00:58:50,026
And football is the big money
drive, football and basketball.

1033
00:58:51,227 --> 00:58:54,097
So what I can tell you is that

1034
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:59,369
I don't think that the university
should ultimately be responsible for.

1035
00:58:59,869 --> 00:59:02,572
And if there are differences
of opinion on this, some people feel

1036
00:59:02,572 --> 00:59:05,909
that it's important
that universities put money in athletics.

1037
00:59:05,942 --> 00:59:09,045
I tend to take
a slightly different position on that.

1038
00:59:09,045 --> 00:59:14,217
I think they ought to pay for themselves
and that ideally, as is the case

1039
00:59:14,217 --> 00:59:17,820
for athletics, probably contributes
back to the university.

1040
00:59:18,288 --> 00:59:19,489
University of Texas.

1041
00:59:19,489 --> 00:59:23,927
It contributes back to the university
at a place like UNF really can't do that.

1042
00:59:25,328 --> 00:59:28,031
So it

1043
00:59:30,767 --> 00:59:32,735
cuts and cuts have to occur.

1044
00:59:32,735 --> 00:59:34,938
They have to occur across the board.

1045
00:59:35,538 --> 00:59:37,507
Everyone has to suffer the pain.

1046
00:59:38,608 --> 00:59:40,076
I do believe that

1047
00:59:40,076 --> 00:59:42,078
if athletics voted us all bottom,

1048
00:59:43,046 --> 00:59:45,281
then I'm not gonna quibble about that.

1049
00:59:45,281 --> 00:59:48,885
If the academic community is generating
money, it can support itself.

1050
00:59:48,885 --> 00:59:49,953
That's fine.

1051
00:59:50,553 --> 00:59:54,123
So it's voting on its own
bottom is really key on that.

1052
00:59:54,757 --> 00:59:57,660
But it was receiving support
from the university

1053
00:59:58,061 --> 00:59:59,662
and all the experience is shared.

1054
00:59:59,662 --> 01:00:04,367
But the thing I'm most concerned about
is the totally ridiculous,

1055
01:00:04,367 --> 01:00:10,039
let me repeat this, totally
ridiculous salary that we're paying

1056
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:14,010
for football and basketball coaches
in America at the collegiate level.

1057
01:00:14,677 --> 01:00:17,080
I can't think of a single coach
that I can.

1058
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,483
I could morally justified
giving $5 million

1059
01:00:20,817 --> 01:00:23,453
for a football season, but

1060
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:26,823
it is, in my view,
my personal view, irresponsible.

1061
01:00:27,724 --> 01:00:30,627
But what happens is when at any cost,

1062
01:00:32,161 --> 01:00:34,964
that's what it comes down
to, that alumni are demanding.

1063
01:00:36,366 --> 01:00:37,500
And some people will say, well,

1064
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:40,303
I willing to pay it because donors
are going to give us all this money.

1065
01:00:41,671 --> 01:00:43,773
I had a I had a guy,

1066
01:00:44,073 --> 01:00:48,211
one of our alumns that I knew called up
and he said, you'll hire this guy.

1067
01:00:48,211 --> 01:00:52,181
we’ll guarantee you $10 million.

1068
01:00:52,181 --> 01:00:56,119
And I said, I won't even interview him.

1069
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:59,255
But that's the thing of speaking
from a values perspective.

1070
01:01:00,289 --> 01:01:02,392
You're not going to buy

1071
01:01:02,392 --> 01:01:05,361
a coaching position in my institution.

1072
01:01:06,229 --> 01:01:09,632
But there are some people who will

1073
01:01:10,466 --> 01:01:13,236
and I'd rather lose

1074
01:01:13,236 --> 01:01:16,305
than buy into that kind of value system.

1075
01:01:17,573 --> 01:01:18,408
Forget it.

1076
01:01:19,142 --> 01:01:22,779
But are some who don't share that view

1077
01:01:22,779 --> 01:01:24,981
and maybe some of it's
about alumni pressure.

1078
01:01:25,014 --> 01:01:29,852
I don't know what to do about that,
but those are the issues.

1079
01:01:30,286 --> 01:01:32,221
You haven’t talked to the presidents
at LSU or Auburn? No.

1080
01:01:32,221 --> 01:01:36,993
No. Of course, in terms of basketball

1081
01:01:38,061 --> 01:01:39,328
at IU

1082
01:01:39,328 --> 01:01:41,964
there is a lot of pressure to win.

1083
01:01:43,399 --> 01:01:46,302
But and, you know, and

1084
01:01:47,737 --> 01:01:50,139
I wasn't prepared to pay

1085
01:01:50,139 --> 01:01:52,475
the kind of salaries
that are being paid in there.

1086
01:01:52,809 --> 01:01:54,811
So maybe I'm just a cheapskate.

1087
01:01:56,079 --> 01:01:58,181
But what happens if you go up in Scobey,
Oklahoma?

1088
01:01:59,348 --> 01:02:02,051
And I said one of the thing about
this is institution

1089
01:02:02,051 --> 01:02:04,921
is I am very proud of the University
of North Florida.

1090
01:02:05,588 --> 01:02:09,992
We've come a long way over the course
of when I came here.

1091
01:02:09,992 --> 01:02:13,329
Again, this was a early,
a very sleepy institution.

1092
01:02:14,564 --> 01:02:17,066
We had fewer than 200 freshmen.

1093
01:02:18,735 --> 01:02:21,204
We had the apartments

1094
01:02:21,571 --> 01:02:26,242
and they just built Osprey Hall
unfortunately, I couldn’t blow it up.

1095
01:02:26,242 --> 01:02:29,312
So it was here, so we had to live with it.

1096
01:02:29,312 --> 01:02:31,414
But it wasn't.

1097
01:02:31,447 --> 01:02:32,849
I got here just before that.

1098
01:02:32,849 --> 01:02:36,953
It made, you know, a lot of what
I thought of the arena there.

1099
01:02:37,353 --> 01:02:39,956
But they were going to have 1500 seats.

1100
01:02:40,423 --> 01:02:42,291
2000 seats?

1101
01:02:42,291 --> 01:02:42,458
Yeah.

1102
01:02:42,458 --> 01:02:46,162
When I came in, I said, I want 12,000.

1103
01:02:46,162 --> 01:02:50,199
We didn't have enough money to do it,
so we built it for six.

1104
01:02:50,566 --> 01:02:53,136
But there are enough bathrooms over there
for 12,000

1105
01:02:53,703 --> 01:02:58,274
for first place, you know, compromise
and there's space to add on to it.

1106
01:02:59,342 --> 01:03:00,877
But, you know,

1107
01:03:00,877 --> 01:03:03,913
it was it was an exciting time.

1108
01:03:03,913 --> 01:03:07,350
You know, people like Mary Borg and others
who just gave the hearts

1109
01:03:07,383 --> 01:03:10,119
and souls of an institution
that is absolute.

1110
01:03:10,753 --> 01:03:13,389
And part of what we tried to do
was to make clear

1111
01:03:13,389 --> 01:03:16,492
that undergraduate
education was the highest priority.

1112
01:03:17,260 --> 01:03:20,463
So if you may not be aware of it,
we have policies about the size of

1113
01:03:20,463 --> 01:03:26,636
classrooms and we have restrictions
so that if you build a new building,

1114
01:03:26,636 --> 01:03:32,074
you couldn’t have more than one room
that seated more than one hundred people.

1115
01:03:32,842 --> 01:03:35,611
classrooms. have to seat

1116
01:03:35,611 --> 01:03:37,713
anywhere from 35 to 50 or less list.

1117
01:03:38,414 --> 01:03:43,553
All of that was geared to the philosophy
that we wanted to focus our attention

1118
01:03:43,586 --> 01:03:46,923
on, on undergraduate spheres
is what the faculty

1119
01:03:46,923 --> 01:03:49,926
members are really committed to that. And

1120
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,095
we wanted all of those things.

1121
01:03:53,095 --> 01:03:56,265
We wanted all of the buildings
to remain connected, that the second level

1122
01:03:57,366 --> 01:03:59,936
wanted to maintain
the same kind of architecture

1123
01:04:00,136 --> 01:04:02,405
pairs of bricks
at least that make a statement.

1124
01:04:02,939 --> 01:04:04,907
All these little things that went into it.

1125
01:04:04,907 --> 01:04:08,411
But quality education was at the heart
of all of it.

1126
01:04:08,411 --> 01:04:12,782
And I'm just so proud to see
outstanding students like Selzer

1127
01:04:13,182 --> 01:04:16,652
are reaping the benefits
so that experience that we were trying

1128
01:04:16,652 --> 01:04:21,624
to establish back in the old days
and that some of our young

1129
01:04:21,624 --> 01:04:25,561
faculty colleagues continue
to be here to carry out that tradition.

1130
01:04:25,561 --> 01:04:27,897
So this would have

1131
01:04:29,098 --> 01:04:32,268
anybody else have a question.

1132
01:04:32,268 --> 01:04:35,238
So, you know, [Audio cuts out] so typical

1133
01:04:38,174 --> 01:04:40,710
environment, which

1134
01:04:41,210 --> 01:04:44,046
has a wonderful role models.

1135
01:04:44,046 --> 01:04:47,917
I became a university
president in part because of

1136
01:04:49,118 --> 01:04:49,485
what I

1137
01:04:49,485 --> 01:04:52,922
observed and the president
of the university where I studied.

1138
01:04:52,922 --> 01:04:55,191
His name was Norman Topping

1139
01:04:56,125 --> 01:05:00,029
and he was just an incredible person
and he was sort of,

1140
01:05:00,029 --> 01:05:04,500
my Godfather, part of that.

1141
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:06,602
I was very involved in Student Government
that kind of thing.

1142
01:05:06,602 --> 01:05:11,240
But I think that terms of the lesson,
I think the key things

1143
01:05:11,407 --> 01:05:16,512
that continue to guide me
are that I believe very strongly

1144
01:05:16,512 --> 01:05:22,685
in the importance of having
a clearly articulated set of values

1145
01:05:23,419 --> 01:05:26,322
that guide you every day
in terms of what you can do.

1146
01:05:26,322 --> 01:05:29,892
I have quit two jobs because

1147
01:05:31,027 --> 01:05:35,264
I was being asked to do something
that was inconsistent with my value system

1148
01:05:36,766 --> 01:05:38,334
and did it very quickly

1149
01:05:38,334 --> 01:05:41,971
because I refused to back away
from those core principles.

1150
01:05:42,805 --> 01:05:46,208
So that that's the first thing,
is having a very clear

1151
01:05:46,208 --> 01:05:49,245
understanding
of what your compass headed north is.

1152
01:05:50,279 --> 01:05:52,181
And and always

1153
01:05:52,181 --> 01:05:54,350
being true to those core values.

1154
01:05:55,284 --> 01:05:57,453
The second thing that I think

1155
01:05:58,187 --> 01:06:00,589
I learned that was important is the

1156
01:06:01,290 --> 01:06:03,592
that vision does count

1157
01:06:05,828 --> 01:06:07,363
if you don't know where you're going

1158
01:06:07,363 --> 01:06:10,466
in your role to get you there.

1159
01:06:10,466 --> 01:06:15,471
And so when I came here
and I'm a change agent,

1160
01:06:15,671 --> 01:06:18,641
that's sort of my thing.

1161
01:06:18,641 --> 01:06:22,278
And that's been true from the time
I was in high school.

1162
01:06:23,312 --> 01:06:25,815
I become a leader of something
and I try to make it better.

1163
01:06:27,483 --> 01:06:31,253
But you you have to have a vision.

1164
01:06:31,253 --> 01:06:35,858
So again, when I came here,
even I didn't talk about it a lot.

1165
01:06:35,858 --> 01:06:41,630
I had a very clear sense of where I felt
the university.

1166
01:06:41,664 --> 01:06:44,700
You know, you can't
you can't just unilaterally

1167
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:47,036
post your vision of something.

1168
01:06:47,036 --> 01:06:49,772
But I knew about the size and.

1169
01:06:49,772 --> 01:06:52,441
I knew about 30,000 students of it all.

1170
01:06:52,742 --> 01:06:54,910
I knew we had a span of physical presence.

1171
01:06:55,144 --> 01:06:56,946
I knew we had to have a master plan

1172
01:06:56,946 --> 01:06:59,248
that was going to enable us
to accomplish that.

1173
01:06:59,248 --> 01:07:00,016
I knew that

1174
01:07:00,983 --> 01:07:02,284
we we really I

1175
01:07:02,284 --> 01:07:05,388
felt that we really needed
to have an outstanding student body.

1176
01:07:06,288 --> 01:07:08,958
I knew we had to grow the institution.

1177
01:07:08,958 --> 01:07:13,562
We went from 6000 students
to 13,000 over a ten year period.

1178
01:07:14,530 --> 01:07:17,400
For a university
that is very rapid growth.

1179
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,271
We had million and a half square
feet of office space during that period

1180
01:07:22,638 --> 01:07:26,075
with some economic challenges
thrown out, thrown in the wrong way.

1181
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:31,147
So but there was just a very clear vision
there.

1182
01:07:32,581 --> 01:07:36,919
And I had some faculty colleagues
that were didn't understand.

1183
01:07:36,919 --> 01:07:39,722
I had approached serving
as chair of the Chamber of Commerce here

1184
01:07:39,722 --> 01:07:42,625
in Jacksonville, the first time
an educator being asked to do that.

1185
01:07:42,925 --> 01:07:45,628
Some of my colleagues said, Well,
why are you doing that?

1186
01:07:46,362 --> 01:07:48,330
Well, it's a very simple proposition.

1187
01:07:48,330 --> 01:07:52,968
If you want to be regarded
as the university in Jacksonville,

1188
01:07:53,402 --> 01:07:57,039
the president of the university
has to be an actor

1189
01:07:57,973 --> 01:08:01,143
and all the context
where the major players are working.

1190
01:08:02,344 --> 01:08:03,379
And so

1191
01:08:03,379 --> 01:08:06,115
if if you know that your goal is

1192
01:08:06,482 --> 01:08:09,785
to elevate
the institution to another level,

1193
01:08:10,186 --> 01:08:14,123
the president's presence in all these
circles is absolutely critical.

1194
01:08:14,123 --> 01:08:16,125
So you end up doing those kinds of things.

1195
01:08:16,425 --> 01:08:18,494
If you want to have a national reputation.

1196
01:08:18,828 --> 01:08:23,766
One of the things that you know
is that the presidents of universities,

1197
01:08:24,467 --> 01:08:28,170
both are they evaluate other universities,
and that ultimately translates

1198
01:08:28,170 --> 01:08:29,939
into what you see in U.S.

1199
01:08:29,939 --> 01:08:30,873
News and World Report

1200
01:08:30,873 --> 01:08:34,777
and some of those kinds of places
where they have they rank universities.

1201
01:08:35,478 --> 01:08:39,548
Well, if you know that, you know,
the president's ability and the president

1202
01:08:40,082 --> 01:08:44,887
has to be involved in as many settings
as possible where other presidents are

1203
01:08:45,187 --> 01:08:48,557
so that they can know
who they are, in part

1204
01:08:48,557 --> 01:08:51,660
because they know who you are
and they know what you stand for.

1205
01:08:51,660 --> 01:08:57,032
They figure that institution is probably
a mirror of your values and all the rest.

1206
01:08:57,032 --> 01:09:01,937
So you end up becoming active
in the age of the American Association

1207
01:09:01,937 --> 01:09:05,641
of Universities
and Students at that level,

1208
01:09:05,641 --> 01:09:08,277
or that was one for institutions
like this.

1209
01:09:08,677 --> 01:09:11,580
The reason I was involved in the NCAA
and became a leader

1210
01:09:11,580 --> 01:09:16,418
in the president's commission there
because they have a national convention.

1211
01:09:16,685 --> 01:09:20,456
And so the president, University
of North Florida, is chairing the group

1212
01:09:20,823 --> 01:09:23,959
of all of the all of the universities
they’re in Division two.

1213
01:09:24,393 --> 01:09:27,663
Well,
yeah, all that is, is it's not for me.

1214
01:09:28,097 --> 01:09:30,966
It's in part because of a president's

1215
01:09:30,966 --> 01:09:34,603
need to see that the University
of North Florida's name is out there.

1216
01:09:34,603 --> 01:09:38,874
So you do all of those kinds of things
as part of achieving the bigger goal.

1217
01:09:38,874 --> 01:09:41,310
So, you know, you end up with a learning

1218
01:09:41,310 --> 01:09:44,647
idea that's stressing the importance
of having goals,

1219
01:09:44,980 --> 01:09:48,918
developing the tactics, strategies
and tactics necessary to accomplish those.

1220
01:09:50,219 --> 01:09:52,855
And going back to what the president,

1221
01:09:53,289 --> 01:09:57,026
President Ford, said,
you got to bring in outstanding people.

1222
01:09:57,359 --> 01:09:59,528
Surround yourself
with very bright fellows.

1223
01:09:59,528 --> 01:10:01,764
I think Bob McNamara was right.

1224
01:10:01,764 --> 01:10:05,467
You find people who are smarter than you
you, them give them a clear

1225
01:10:05,467 --> 01:10:09,371
sense of where you're trying to go
and hold them accountable for performance.

1226
01:10:09,371 --> 01:10:11,840
Accountability is absolutely essential.

1227
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,610
And that's one of the things
that I just continue to see.

1228
01:10:15,211 --> 01:10:17,713
Effective
leaders are consistently ones who,

1229
01:10:18,414 --> 01:10:21,317
who do those three things.

1230
01:10:21,817 --> 01:10:24,453
Um, I think you've got to

1231
01:10:25,921 --> 01:10:27,590
have a good sense of your strengths

1232
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:30,993
and weaknesses and what weaknesses is.

1233
01:10:30,993 --> 01:10:34,296
You got to have folks you
that make up for those.

1234
01:10:34,630 --> 01:10:37,399
You don't put yourself in a position
where you are unable

1235
01:10:37,399 --> 01:10:41,003
to deliver on what it is
that made a commitment to the world.

1236
01:10:41,604 --> 01:10:43,906
Those are some of
those. Oh, well, that's okay.

1237
01:10:45,541 --> 01:10:48,244
Well, we're out of time, but I want to
thank you so much.

1238
01:10:48,244 --> 01:10:49,845
This was very interesting.

1239
01:10:49,845 --> 01:10:51,847
And we have a of gift for you

1240
01:10:52,982 --> 01:10:55,951
to thank you for all of your

1241
01:10:55,951 --> 01:10:58,454
contributions to you and open

1242
01:11:10,332 --> 01:11:13,602
to you The fact that I looked around
the room, I didn't see anyone go to sleep.

1243
01:11:13,602 --> 01:16:05,327
So thank

1244
01:16:05,327 --> 01:20:57,085
you very

1245
01:20:57,085 --> 01:23:22,931
much.